Talk:The Most Toys (episode)
He was a man, take him for all in all: I shall not look upon his like again. What is the book that Picard gave to Data that this quote is taken from? :Hamlet. SwishyGarak 03:59, 25 August 2007 (UTC) ::Judging from the size, I'd think it was Shakespeare's collected works. The quote, more interestingly, is a comment Hamlet makes about his deceased father Act One, Scene Two. Its context is appropriate to the episode, because it comes right before Hamlet is told that what had seemed a natural death was actually a murder. Data's Deception Does it make any sense? We can infer from Data lying to Riker about the cause of the disruptor's discharging (his attempt to kill Fajo) that Data is capable of lying. What was his motivation for lying? I can only think of embarrassment, or an attempt to avoid disciplinary action - neither of which makes sense. Did Data ever lie in any other episodes when there wasn't a tactical reason to do so? – Vivec 12:25, 20 April 2008 (UTC) :Maybe something really did happen in transport. That disruptor was a prototype, after all. SwishyGarak 17:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC) :: Yes, but even if Data had not fired, he was certainly about to do so. Also the scene with Riker is focused on the possibility that Data has lied. (That is to say, we are supposed to accept that it is at least possible.) First, there is the length of time the shot shows them looking at each other: to me, it seems Data is observing Riker's reaction to see if he has been believed. And then, and more plainly, there is Riker's expression as he watches Data leave and the skeptical look he shares with O'Brien. — XMediaManX 12:59, November 13, 2009 (UTC) ::I agree — Data had no reasonable motive to lie. His imprisonment is, as he points out to Fajo, a hostile act in itself, and he is permitted to use lethal force in self-defense. Killing Fajo is in this situation the minimum use of force capable of overcoming the threat he presents: Data has only the disrupter for a weapon, and he can't lay hands on Fajo because of the force field he's using. Further, as a member of Starfleet, Data has a duty to attempt escape. ::Fajo, too, should realize all this. He's clever, and Data has already explained to him, in obvious Data fashion, his "rules of engagement." Nevertheless, Fajo is confident that Data will judge it murder to kill him. Data — who in that earlier discussion didn't hesitate to correct Fajo's overly broad use of the term "murder" — seems to concede the point. ::This seems to be one of those episodes where I find myself simply disagreeing with the moral stance of the writers. My guess is that, the way they read the situation, Data may not kill Fajo because his own life is not being threatened: the use of force wouldn't be proportionate, so it would be murder. But this is ludicrous: if he had to knock out a guard to escape, would he be compelled to wait until the guard had acquired and was about to employ the ability to incapacitate him? ::At the same time, of course, it is satisfying to see Fajo's realization that Data intends to fire; and I think this was intended. "I cannot allow this to continue" is a statement that, whatever reasoning is behind it, is one the viewer is supposed to sympathize with or accept outright. So is the conclusion supposed to be a meditation on the limits of ethics? All I can say is that someone needs a class in remedial moral philosophy. — XMediaManX 12:59, November 13, 2009 (UTC) :::Irrelevant this is for discussing the article not anyone's opinions on how something went down in the episode. — Morder (talk) 13:36, November 13, 2009 (UTC) :::Data didn't lie. What he said is 'Perhaps something occurred during transport, Commander.' If Data fired the gun, he didn't fire it until after the transport had begun, so technically that is a true statement regardless of his intentions. 14:59, April 17, 2012 (UTC) ::::As stated immediately above, talk pages are for discussing article changes only, so no further comment is necessary. 31dot 21:02, April 17, 2012 (UTC) What does it tell us about him? Having beaten up on the writers in one area, I think they do deserve credit for developing Data's character in an interesting way. Let's pretend it makes sense that firing on Fajo is something Data would wish to conceal, and let's assume (as seems extremely probable) that he did in fact do it. That act and the exchange with Riker, then, show first that Data is capable of exceeding his programming even in the most fundamental matters; and, second, they show that he is capable of lying and disobedience to lawful authority. It also shows that he is capable of forming and adhering to his own ideas about justice: evidently he deemed it just to fire on Fajo and unjust that he should be punished for doing so. Actually, disobedience based on one's own principles is something that he learned in The Offspring, from Picard, who explicitly teaches it to him as something proper to Human beings. So actually that's all kind of cool. — XMediaManX 12:59, November 13, 2009 (UTC) Size of the Dali painting The painting of Salvador Dali in Fajo's collection can not be the original painting. According to wikipedia The Persistence of Memory is 24 cm × 33 cm, according to a friends book (ISBN: 3-89350-745-0) it's 26.3 cm × 36.5 cm, and according to my memory when I saw it in The Museum of Modern Art this is the actual size. The painting in Fajo's collection is much bigger so it can't be the original. Is this somehow useful information to add to the article? -- LeSpocky 21:30, December 11, 2009 (UTC) :That would be a nitpick. In the world of Star Trek, Fajo does own the real painting and is larger and the one in wikipedia is wrong. — Morder (talk) 21:36, December 11, 2009 (UTC) Removed While talking about what caused Data's shuttle's explosion, Picard named La Forge "Lieutenant". Removed nitpick.--31dot 19:48, January 1, 2010 (UTC) Removed the following quotes/scenes, per MA:QUOTE: "We're talking about sabotage." "With tricyanate? That's hard to believe. It's slow to assimilate, difficult to replicate and hard to transport. There are a lot of easier ways to poison a water supply - more effective ways too." "Can you think of any reason a saboteur would choose tricyanate?" "It might pass for a natural disaster, and since there's only one way to treat it - with hytritium - maybe somebody figured we couldn't locate it - it is hard to find." "Then it really was ''lucky, wasn't it - that we were able to find hytritium when we did, and'' just enough hytritium for this crisis?" :- Riker and Dr. Crusher, seeing that this was no natural disaster "Fajo was in the right place at the right time - just when we needed him most." "You suggesting he created the problem just to solve it?" "Possibly." "What - to make a profit from his sale of hytritium?" "It doesn't add up - the cost of producing tricyanate is very expensive. He wouldn't make a profit from it - quite the contrary." "Then why would he do it?" "What did he want?" :- Riker, Picard, Geordi, Dr. Crusher, and Worf, figuring out that something wasn't right "Computer, biographical data on the trader Kivas Fajo." "Accessing file on Kivas Fajo...a noted collector of rare and valuable objects, including the Rejac Crystal, "The Starry Night" by Vincent van Gogh, the Lawmim Galactopedia, the Moliam Andi tapestries..." "Computer, that is sufficient." "Rare and valuable object..." (Knowing what - or who - fits the description) "What if...Data wasn't on that shuttle?" :- Picard, the Enterprise computer, Riker, and Geordi, putting the pieces together "You won't hurt me...'fundamental respect for all living beings', that's what you said...I'm a living being, therefore you can't... harm me..." "I cannot allow this to continue - you will surrender yourself to the authoritiees..." "Or what - you'll fire? Empty threat - we both know it...Why don't you accept your fate? You will return to your chair, and you will sit there! You will entertain me, and you will entertain my guests - and if you don't, I'll simply kill someone else...their blood will be on your hands too, just like poor Varia's." :- Kivas Fajo and Data, as Data aims a Varon-T disruptor at Fajo "Don't count me out to quickly - I had you in my collection once, I can have you there again!" "Unlikely, sir...Your collection has been confiscated. All of your stolen possessions are being returned to their rightful owners - you have lost everything you value." "Must give you great pleasure..." "No, sir - it does not...I do not feel pleasure - I am only an android." :- Kivas Fajo and Data, in the Enterprise brig --31dot 21:51, April 10, 2010 (UTC) Re-addedb a few, edited down to IMHO fit the giudelines --Ten-pint 15:08, April 12, 2010 (UTC) Alas poor Varria Removed the line about acid scarring Varria as we don't know from watching the show that that's how Fajo abused her. He could’ve just been knocking her about. That said, Good for a background note, perhaps?--Archer4real 18:16, November 8, 2011 (UTC) Zimbalia/Zimballia I need someone with the DVDs/BDs to check the spelling of this word in the captions so it can be added to the reference list. The scene is the back and forth between Data and Fajo before he throws the finoplak on Data, and the actual dialog is "Perhaps. Perhaps you would not judge me so harshly if you knew of my desperate youth, wasted, wasted on the streets of Zimbal(l)ia." While I'm inclined to believe the spelling on the transcript, it would be nice to be sure. - 00:23, May 10, 2015 (UTC) : spells the species as "Zibalian" (pronounced "zih-BAY-lee-on") so one would assume the name of the planet is spelled "Zibalia". --| TrekFan Open a channel 16:34, May 10, 2015 (UTC) Time Squared Painting in Data's Quarters? When Geordi and Wesley are looking through Data's quarters, they come across the painting that looks a lot like the anomaly from Time Squared (episode). Is that the case, and if so should it be mentioned in "Continuity"? 03:07, July 25, 2016 (UTC)